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Author Topic: Chatham Comprehensive Plan  (Read 7089 times)
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Ice Pilot2
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« Reply #60 on: April 11, 2017, 08:24:28 AM »

 How about we call this one a day and get to know each other better before we go at it.    Idea

That is exactly what one should have expected from such a long term poster and grand teacher of all who enter the lair.  

Full late disclosure.   Not new to Chatham and not new to this board.  Been here (on this board ) over 10 years.   Gene's little playground here is quite the social experiment.  Remember well the discussions about banning posters, and playing by the rules when lines were perceived to be crossed.  

Know of many many postings from the likes of Pi, Peaceful, Randy Voller, Meg Miller, Christianhusband, MamaCash, Donnie Spring, Conehead, Silk, UNC70, Foggy, 1911, Bill Crawford, Brian Bock, SRVfan, Sofaking, Zorro, Axio, Integrity Ticket, Rabit, CCoach, Yip, Chatbooks, Jack Stevens,  heck I could go on and on.   btw JF, I seem to remember you having expertise in some part of the auto business, correct?  If so, was hoping you would have chimed in on this whole discussion about what happened to Chatham County auto dealerships.   Smiley

This was an experiment, poorly designed, but did validate something ( to me )   To remind all, this is what started whole thing.  A comment and questions.  1911 took the High Road.  Pi took the road often travelled by Pi.  

Did she say she was upset?  I thought I read it had not been forgotten.  Not the same.    Agree?

Not trying to pick a keyboard fight here (one that I would surely lose miserably imho after reading some of Pi's posts)  but, for goodness sake it might be time to slow the vitriol against Rabit in this thread.  This thread, not one from however many whatevers ago where she was less than positive to someone.  


This is an opinion and only an opinion.  No facts or absolutes to be debated, just a run on sentence or two expressing a personal opinion;    If people cannot come here and have discussions, or reasonably challenge something that has been said, without being called ignorant, humorless, self righteous, foolish, etc., in long stream of consciousness responses, then, none of us will enjoy the full benefit of this great community because many are going to stay away, leave, or just lurk.  If people new to this board, make a post that is viewed as less than in line with the views of the vocal "old timers" and are attacked for it, well, same result.  
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 08:52:27 AM by Ice Pilot2 » Logged
Pi
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« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2017, 09:01:38 AM »

 How about we call this one a day and get to know each other better before we go at it.    Idea

That is exactly what one should have expected from such a long term poster and grand teacher of all who enter the lair.  

Full late disclosure.   Not new to Chatham and not new to this board.  Been here (on this board ) over 10 years.   Gene's little playground here is quite the social experiment.  Remember well the discussions about banning posters, and playing by the rules when lines were perceived to be crossed.  

Know of many many postings from the likes of Pi, Peaceful, Randy Voller, Meg Miller, Christianhusband, MamaCash, Donnie Spring, Conehead, Silk, UNC70, Foggy, 1911, Bill Crawford, Brian Bock, SRVfan, Sofaking, Zorro, Axio, Integrity Ticket, Rabit, CCoach, Yip, Chatbooks, Jack Stevens,  heck I could go on and on.   btw JF, I seem to remember you having expertise in some part of the auto business, correct?  If so, was hoping you would have chimed in on this whole discussion about what happened to Chatham County auto dealerships.   Smiley

This was an experiment, poorly designed, but did validate something ( to me )   To remind all, this is what started whole thing.  A comment and questions.  1911 took the High Road.  Pi took the road often travelled by Pi.  

Did she say she was upset?  I thought I read it had not been forgotten.  Not the same.    Agree?

Not trying to pick a keyboard fight here (one that I would surely lose miserably imho after reading some of Pi's posts)  but, for goodness sake it might be time to slow the vitriol against Rabit in this thread.  This thread, not one from however many whatevers ago where she was less than positive to someone.  


This is an opinion and only an opinion.  No facts or absolutes to be debated, just a run on sentence or two expressing a personal opinion;    If people cannot come here and have discussions, or reasonably challenge something that has been said, without being called ignorant, humorless, self righteous, foolish, etc., in long stream of consciousness responses, then, none of us will enjoy the full benefit of this great community because many are going to stay away, leave, or just lurk.  If people new to this board, make one post that is viewed as less than in line with the views of the vocal "old timers" and attacked for it, well, same result.  

You're making a spectacular attempt at trolling.  And here I am responding.  So I guess you could also call it successful trolling.

The bottom line is that I'm tired.  Tired of having been the voice of reason.  Tired of the negativity.  You say I take the low road, or at least that is the implication.  If you have in fact been there, and perhaps you were formally known as the poster hbsomething or other (just a guess based on the airplane theme), you would also know how I started out here.  Thus, it shouldn't be necessary to remind you.

One wonders why it was that you decided to single me out for your experiment.  Let's be absolutely clear: it isn't alternative views that I take issue with.  I am speaking only for myself in this regard.

What I take issue with is people that are only negative, and do not back up their arguments with some kind of logic.  If you have been here, you'll note that what Rabit does is snipe at people and when asked to explain herself, she simply refuses.

Long ago, it has become apparent that the board isn't really a place for discussion per se.  Or at least not discussion as I understand it.  The board is dead, for all intents and purposes.  If you feel the need to blame me for that, then go right ahead.  But you'd be wrong about the cause of the board's decline.

You know you're being selective here.  I know it.  Everyone else knows it.  It is what it is.  That's okay.  You have every right to be as selective as you want.  Then again, we all have the right to call it the way we see it.

I used to travel the road of reasonable discussion until I realized that I wasn't dealing with reasonable people.  Call me jaded, but it just isn't fun anymore.  You want me to go back to the old Pi?  Here's what you can do.  Lead by example.

Instead of righteous indignation, post things of substance.  And I don't mean a link to an article.  Lay out your thoughts in a logical and compelling manner.  Do that a few dozen times when it comes to big issues like healthcare, economics, the proper role of government, ethics, local ordinances, etc.  

Then after you do that, watch as people come in, snipe at you, and then run off without responding to any of your counterarguments.  Walking in my shoes takes a lot more effort than simply saying "See!! Pi was mean to me!".

Doing so is empty posturing.  You want to make the board great again?  It takes work.  Once you've put that work in, you'll come to the same conclusion I did.  It wasn't worth it.

Your mileage may vary.  You want to carry the torch or independent thought around here?  Here it is.  I'm passing it to you.  Take it.  Run with it.  Do what you will with it.  I'm done.
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Ice Pilot2
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« Reply #62 on: April 11, 2017, 09:08:27 AM »

Do what you will with it.  I'm done.


I challenge you to be done with it.  I triple dog dare you.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZLZj3zOUZNs&amp;rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/ZLZj3zOUZNs&amp;rel=0</a>
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Pi
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« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2017, 09:20:32 AM »

Do what you will with it.  I'm done.


I challenge you to be done with it.  I triple dog dare you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLZj3zOUZNs#


Sure.  You going to pick up the torch or not?  That's the question.
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hb727
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« Reply #64 on: April 11, 2017, 10:13:58 AM »

 How about we call this one a day and get to know each other better before we go at it.    Idea

That is exactly what one should have expected from such a long term poster and grand teacher of all who enter the lair.  

Full late disclosure.   Not new to Chatham and not new to this board.  Been here (on this board ) over 10 years.   Gene's little playground here is quite the social experiment.  Remember well the discussions about banning posters, and playing by the rules when lines were perceived to be crossed.  

Know of many many postings from the likes of Pi, Peaceful, Randy Voller, Meg Miller, Christianhusband, MamaCash, Donnie Spring, Conehead, Silk, UNC70, Foggy, 1911, Bill Crawford, Brian Bock, SRVfan, Sofaking, Zorro, Axio, Integrity Ticket, Rabit, CCoach, Yip, Chatbooks, Jack Stevens,  heck I could go on and on.   btw JF, I seem to remember you having expertise in some part of the auto business, correct?  If so, was hoping you would have chimed in on this whole discussion about what happened to Chatham County auto dealerships.   Smiley

This was an experiment, poorly designed, but did validate something ( to me )   To remind all, this is what started whole thing.  A comment and questions.  1911 took the High Road.  Pi took the road often travelled by Pi.  

Did she say she was upset?  I thought I read it had not been forgotten.  Not the same.    Agree?

Not trying to pick a keyboard fight here (one that I would surely lose miserably imho after reading some of Pi's posts)  but, for goodness sake it might be time to slow the vitriol against Rabit in this thread.  This thread, not one from however many whatevers ago where she was less than positive to someone.  


This is an opinion and only an opinion.  No facts or absolutes to be debated, just a run on sentence or two expressing a personal opinion;    If people cannot come here and have discussions, or reasonably challenge something that has been said, without being called ignorant, humorless, self righteous, foolish, etc., in long stream of consciousness responses, then, none of us will enjoy the full benefit of this great community because many are going to stay away, leave, or just lurk.  If people new to this board, make one post that is viewed as less than in line with the views of the vocal "old timers" and attacked for it, well, same result.  

You're making a spectacular attempt at trolling.  And here I am responding.  So I guess you could also call it successful trolling.

The bottom line is that I'm tired.  Tired of having been the voice of reason.  Tired of the negativity.  You say I take the low road, or at least that is the implication.  If you have in fact been there, and perhaps you were formally known as the poster hbsomething or other (just a guess based on the airplane theme), you would also know how I started out here.  Thus, it shouldn't be necessary to remind you.

One wonders why it was that you decided to single me out for your experiment.  Let's be absolutely clear: it isn't alternative views that I take issue with.  I am speaking only for myself in this regard.

What I take issue with is people that are only negative, and do not back up their arguments with some kind of logic.  If you have been here, you'll note that what Rabit does is snipe at people and when asked to explain herself, she simply refuses.

Long ago, it has become apparent that the board isn't really a place for discussion per se.  Or at least not discussion as I understand it.  The board is dead, for all intents and purposes.  If you feel the need to blame me for that, then go right ahead.  But you'd be wrong about the cause of the board's decline.

You know you're being selective here.  I know it.  Everyone else knows it.  It is what it is.  That's okay.  You have every right to be as selective as you want.  Then again, we all have the right to call it the way we see it.

I used to travel the road of reasonable discussion until I realized that I wasn't dealing with reasonable people.  Call me jaded, but it just isn't fun anymore.  You want me to go back to the old Pi?  Here's what you can do.  Lead by example.

Instead of righteous indignation, post things of substance.  And I don't mean a link to an article.  Lay out your thoughts in a logical and compelling manner.  Do that a few dozen times when it comes to big issues like healthcare, economics, the proper role of government, ethics, local ordinances, etc.  

Then after you do that, watch as people come in, snipe at you, and then run off without responding to any of your counterarguments.  Walking in my shoes takes a lot more effort than simply saying "See!! Pi was mean to me!".

Doing so is empty posturing.  You want to make the board great again?  It takes work.  Once you've put that work in, you'll come to the same conclusion I did.  It wasn't worth it.

Your mileage may vary.  You want to carry the torch or independent thought around here?  Here it is.  I'm passing it to you.  Take it.  Run with it.  Do what you will with it.  I'm done.

It's been so many years since I've posted on here that I've forgotten how. No Pi, I would not be Ice Pilot2. Just wanted to clear that up.
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Pi
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« Reply #65 on: April 11, 2017, 10:28:34 AM »

It's been so many years since I've posted on here that I've forgotten how. No Pi, I would not be Ice Pilot2. Just wanted to clear that up.

Good to see you again sir.  Apologies for any association or aspersions.  It was just a wild guess on my part.  Hope you are doing well!
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Ice Pilot2
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« Reply #66 on: April 11, 2017, 02:12:00 PM »


It's been so many years since I've posted on here that I've forgotten how. No Pi, I would not be Ice Pilot2. Just wanted to clear that up.


Oh HBW,  it's just like flying a plane, or a helicopter, or selling real estate, or driving a fast German car, or riding a fast motorcycle, once you learn you never forget!   Welcome back from me too.    Wink

fwiw, note,  not even the Triple Dog Dare could keep Pi on point of being done.  Shocking  Shocked

There is no torch to pick up.  Let all the people here be torch carriers and be neighborly to one another.  Or, in the famous words of Ted "Theodore" Logan and Bill S. Preston Esq.  ; "Be Excellent to one another!"

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sFy17auuK08&amp;rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/sFy17auuK08&amp;rel=0</a>


« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 02:24:12 PM by Ice Pilot2 » Logged
Pi
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« Reply #67 on: April 11, 2017, 02:32:51 PM »

 Let all the people here be torch carriers and be neighborly to one another.  

That's precisely the torch I'm talking about.  But first, you have to take your own advice. 
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Ice Pilot2
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« Reply #68 on: April 11, 2017, 02:39:47 PM »

 Let all the people here be torch carriers and be neighborly to one another.  

That's precisely the torch I'm talking about.  But first, you have to take your own advice. 

Done with it now neighbor?   
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« Reply #69 on: April 11, 2017, 02:53:05 PM »

 Let all the people here be torch carriers and be neighborly to one another.  

That's precisely the torch I'm talking about.  But first, you have to take your own advice. 

Done with it now neighbor?   

Perhaps.  But then the bad guys would win, wouldn't they?  See, I appreciate you proving my point.  This whole thing was selective on your part.

And of course you refuse to take your own advice.  Nice way to start off 50 posts in as an obvious retread.
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« Reply #70 on: April 11, 2017, 03:27:10 PM »

 Let all the people here be torch carriers and be neighborly to one another.  

That's precisely the torch I'm talking about.  But first, you have to take your own advice. 

Done with it now neighbor?   

Perhaps.  But then the bad guys would win, wouldn't they?  See, I appreciate you proving my point.  This whole thing was selective on your part.

And of course you refuse to take your own advice.  Nice way to start off 50 posts in as an obvious retread.

Look, we obviously disagree.  I have no burning desire to have the last word.  Are there final thoughts you would like to add to this thread so we can move on?   Please add those and everyone can live to type another day.       
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« Reply #71 on: April 11, 2017, 04:04:39 PM »

 Let all the people here be torch carriers and be neighborly to one another.  

That's precisely the torch I'm talking about.  But first, you have to take your own advice. 

Done with it now neighbor?   

Perhaps.  But then the bad guys would win, wouldn't they?  See, I appreciate you proving my point.  This whole thing was selective on your part.

And of course you refuse to take your own advice.  Nice way to start off 50 posts in as an obvious retread.

Look, we obviously disagree.  I have no burning desire to have the last word.  Are there final thoughts you would like to add to this thread so we can move on?   Please add those and everyone can live to type another day.       

You started this back and forth.  You.  Not me.

I could say my final thoughts on this thread but we all know that this issue has been going on for years and will continue for years to come.  That's because there's a large segment of liberals that want to limit growth in Chatham County.  They do it under whatever auspices they can dream up.  Much of the time those "concerns" are about the environment.  But they're all just designed to limit landowners when it comes to doing what they please with their land.

That's what all of this zoning nonsense is all about.  It's a way for the county to control what people do.  Environmental regulations that dictate easements to the extent that one can hardly raise a barn or any other structure without going to the BOC with hat in hand.

The East simply looks down their nose at the West, and perceives them as quaint and backward.  That's why any "comprehensive plans" aren't comprehensive at all because the West is left behind.  Once again.  Until we start electing people that give a damn about the West, a sizeable portion of our county's geography and citizenry will always play second fiddle to the rest.
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« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2017, 08:17:32 AM »

 Let all the people here be torch carriers and be neighborly to one another.  

That's precisely the torch I'm talking about.  But first, you have to take your own advice. 

Done with it now neighbor?   

Perhaps.  But then the bad guys would win, wouldn't they?  See, I appreciate you proving my point.  This whole thing was selective on your part.

And of course you refuse to take your own advice.  Nice way to start off 50 posts in as an obvious retread.

Look, we obviously disagree.  I have no burning desire to have the last word.  Are there final thoughts you would like to add to this thread so we can move on?   Please add those and everyone can live to type another day.       

You started this back and forth.  You.  Not me.

I could say my final thoughts on this thread but we all know that this issue has been going on for years and will continue for years to come.  That's because there's a large segment of liberals that want to limit growth in Chatham County.  They do it under whatever auspices they can dream up.  Much of the time those "concerns" are about the environment.  But they're all just designed to limit landowners when it comes to doing what they please with their land.

That's what all of this zoning nonsense is all about.  It's a way for the county to control what people do.  Environmental regulations that dictate easements to the extent that one can hardly raise a barn or any other structure without going to the BOC with hat in hand.

The East simply looks down their nose at the West, and perceives them as quaint and backward.  That's why any "comprehensive plans" aren't comprehensive at all because the West is left behind.  Once again.  Until we start electing people that give a damn about the West, a sizeable portion of our county's geography and citizenry will always play second fiddle to the rest.

I agree 100%. Many years ago the movement was there to let the districts choose their own commissioners, voting by district. Because this threatened the East's power it was voted down. There is no other reason for all of the County residents to vote for all of the Commissioners than to maintain power and the status quo.
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« Reply #73 on: April 12, 2017, 09:59:29 AM »

 How about we call this one a day and get to know each other better before we go at it.    Idea

That is exactly what one should have expected from such a long term poster and grand teacher of all who enter the lair.  

Full late disclosure.   Not new to Chatham and not new to this board.  Been here (on this board ) over 10 years.   Gene's little playground here is quite the social experiment.  Remember well the discussions about banning posters, and playing by the rules when lines were perceived to be crossed.  

Know of many many postings from the likes of Pi, Peaceful, Randy Voller, Meg Miller, Christianhusband, MamaCash, Donnie Spring, Conehead, Silk, UNC70, Foggy, 1911, Bill Crawford, Brian Bock, SRVfan, Sofaking, Zorro, Axio, Integrity Ticket, Rabit, CCoach, Yip, Chatbooks, Jack Stevens,  heck I could go on and on.   btw JF, I seem to remember you having expertise in some part of the auto business, correct?  If so, was hoping you would have chimed in on this whole discussion about what happened to Chatham County auto dealerships.   Smiley

This was an experiment, poorly designed, but did validate something ( to me )   To remind all, this is what started whole thing.  A comment and questions.  1911 took the High Road.  Pi took the road often travelled by Pi.  

Did she say she was upset?  I thought I read it had not been forgotten.  Not the same.    Agree?

Not trying to pick a keyboard fight here (one that I would surely lose miserably imho after reading some of Pi's posts)  but, for goodness sake it might be time to slow the vitriol against Rabit in this thread.  This thread, not one from however many whatevers ago where she was less than positive to someone.  


This is an opinion and only an opinion.  No facts or absolutes to be debated, just a run on sentence or two expressing a personal opinion;    If people cannot come here and have discussions, or reasonably challenge something that has been said, without being called ignorant, humorless, self righteous, foolish, etc., in long stream of consciousness responses, then, none of us will enjoy the full benefit of this great community because many are going to stay away, leave, or just lurk.  If people new to this board, make a post that is viewed as less than in line with the views of the vocal "old timers" and are attacked for it, well, same result.  


  If you can call 40+ years in the car business expertise then I guess I know a little bout it. First off I never worked here so what the inner workings that lead to their closing is not known to me. But it can't more than a couple of reasons, A they were old stores and the owners made their money and moved on or there was no one to take the business over and no buyers because of market size to make it worth it to take the over.   A lot of the story is probably that these stores were under an old version of the franchise agreements when the factories could NOT force you to spend millions to upgrade the stores to follow the new corporate look and rules.  There is nothing cheap about the upgrades and not to mention the new building rules  to make the local governments happy with code compliance.

  The last place I worked for had to spend in excess of 3 million to meet every bodies  requirements and that did not include to purchase if the building property and franchise which was over 12 mil. so you can see why people got out and the point just died off.  Not to mention government involvement in the closing of stores and they decide who stayed and who went based on knowing nothing about the business at all.  I know of several store that were well run and profitable store that lost their franchises and store that barely made it  that were allowed to keep their franchises.

  The suspicions and not unfounded were made based on who the owners supported politically funny that the vast majority that lost were backing repubs.  So for those of us on the inside started to see a pattern.

   As for Rabbits experience at the local dealers I wasn't there and I don't know. I only have her word for that something happened but I don't know what. I could have gotten heated which can happen and somebody decided that the best thing to do was walk away from the sale and yes we do/did walk away from some people who are too much of a pain to deal with because if it starts that way it just never gets better from that point on. Nobody needs the brain damage.

  She was free to take her money and walk.  Sometimes it's just bad chemistry between the buyer and the seller and you cant mix oil and water.  I know this if nothing else that as long as everybody involved is reasonable it works if that can't happen nothing happens.

  If it a looser nobody needs it you do what you can and that's it. What was or wasn't said to her to pi** her off only she and the other party know and we only have her side of the store and we don't even know what got it to the point of her being insulted or at least her perception of being insulted.

  People in the car business are no different than anybody else, they have families and homes and attend churches like everybody else.  And this may come as a shock they have feelings too. There are people that just look down their noses at us and they don't even try to hide it and we give it back in kind but not without trying to get a deal done. But in the it's on the both of the parties  to once again be reasonable if it doesn't happen we have to part company and move on.

   In my career I simply have never tolerated being abused or talked down to by anybody I didn't do it to them and have never taken it from them.  We have been called liars and thieves for as long as there has been a car business but I know also that a deal can go either way and lord know that usually there are liars on each side of the desk cause both parties are selling something to the other.

  IE did you know that every trade in I have gotten was in excellent condition bad tires sratches and dents not withstanding cause we didn't pay for tires paint work and body work so since the dealer got all that for nothing it should not matter as to the value of the trade not to mention that the new car they were trying to sell they got for free so the price was all profit and the byer has a right to get it for whatever they think it should be.

  This is getting long and I'll stop here.
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 FILIPPO MAZZEI
Ice Pilot2
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Last Login:June 20, 2017, 10:22:56 AM
Date Registerd:January 16, 2017, 12:07:59 PM
Posts: 113


« Reply #74 on: April 12, 2017, 10:39:30 AM »

- - - -  This is getting long and I'll stop here.

Thanks for the post JF.
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