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Author Topic: To Jeff  (Read 1888 times)
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Last Login:Today at 12:46:02 AM
Date Registerd:August 09, 2011, 10:12:40 AM
Posts: 4,523

« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2015, 04:40:31 PM »

I'm going to take the weekend to think about whether or not it is worth it to continue to post here on the BBS.  Either I am too touchy, or some of you guys need to stop and take stock of who is an ally and who is not.

Being intractable, and denying being insulting or putting words in someone's mouth is an annoyance that I can't stand.  Ignoring the obvious political similarities and instead fixating on ONE difference of opinion is ridiculous.

Folks, if you go back and look at Jeff's posts, you'll see that he really got bent out of shape when he intentionally or unintentionally construed someone either I or Noway said as "Jeff, you are wrong to believe in God".

That's not what either of us said.  It isn't what happened.  But that was enough to set Jeff off, apparently. 

Jeff, knock yourself out when it comes to responding to me.  Tell me I'm wrong, despite the fact that I've not said you are wrong.  Except the way you went about this discussion.  That was wrong.

Tell us again that you know better than the "predominance" of Baptist preachers.  Tell us again that you know better than the majority of Christians.  And we'll just accept it as confidence rather than arrogance.  We'll chalk up you putting words in my mouth as confidence too...instead of arrogance.

You know guys, I really tried very hard to add something to the discussion here.  But it appears that in the end, I'm fighting both ends.  Even I can't do that indefinitely.  I've got other audiences that actually do give a damn about what I have to say.  And they don't go off the deep end if we happen to disagree. 

This whole exercise has been for nothing.  The time and effort was pointless.  After all this, you guys can't tell friend from foe.  You have to be so damn intractable all the time.

Jeff, if you are so damn smart, you can carry the water from now on.  You can debate the liberals around here.  Just keep referring to God and don't bother with the charts and graphs.  Eschew the numbers.  All of that is just a distraction anyway.

If you guys don't give a damn, then neither should I. 

There are two ways to conquer and enslave a country. One is by the sword. The other is by debt. - John Adams
Jeff G
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Last Login:November 16, 2016, 08:11:16 PM
Date Registerd:February 17, 2013, 11:14:15 PM
Posts: 687

« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2015, 09:07:06 PM »


I said I was going to respond to your long post above, but have decided it is I who should bow out of this discussion. It is pretty clear to me that the more I post, the more agitated you become. Instead of asking you to point out where, in your perception, I had gotten bent out of shape, or, in fact, discuss any of the other pertinent issues further with you, I have decided that to carry this any further would serve to only sow more discord.

And to be perfectly honest, I hope you don't decide to leave the forum. There is no one here that can replace your insight on a great number of vital subjects that desperately need to be understood by all. Face it, man, you're part of the furniture of reality around here! I consider the things I have to contribute to be vital as well, and perhaps I can expound on things a bit as time goes by. But for now, for the sake of a hope in leading to a better understanding, I will let the conversation rest.

Now, get your butt back in here when you feel like it!
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Last Login:November 11, 2016, 07:23:38 PM
Date Registerd:February 20, 2006, 11:25:33 PM
Posts: 10,008

« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2015, 11:35:08 PM »

At some point, I might forgive Jeff but it will be over the course of time and depend on his behavior.  It is also worth noting that you have directed your comments to me in order to get me to change my approach instead of directing some sort of comment toward him.  I don't know if that means you're more or less on his side or if you're appealing to me because you think I'm more willing to listen.  Maybe it is both, I don't know.
Pi, I responded directly to you,  because you asked me directly.  I thought I would be overstepping to reply to Jeff, who had not asked me a direct question.   

If Jeff did, I would respond directly to him, and TRY to give scriptural advice. In general, I am distressed by the conflict between two folks I respect, and would desire to see peace bwtween them. I do not think this should go this far.

Let me make sure that one thing is understood.  If I say anything about religion in general I don't want you to take it personally.  As I have been saying over and over again, I didn't want this conversation.  But he pushed and pushed, and so now here we are.  As I said before, I do not think less of anyone that disagrees with me on this topic.  That's not the way I look at it.  Christians have been targeted politically.  Despite the fact that I am agnostic, I have donated money and time toward causes that would defend people based on their First Amendment rights.  There is a movement afoot to strip churches of their tax exempt status if they refuse to marry same sex couples.  They are already fining people for not baking cakes, etc.  I believe those government actions violate First Amendment rights.

Thank you, Pi. I know, and I believe, that as the world is divided, you are on my side and I certainly want you at my side. That is not to say you see every little issue the way I do, but that you are a thinking person, who believes in Rights, and freedoms, and even if you do not believe every detail as I do, you would be simultaneously able to think I am an idiot on a personal level, and fight to defend my right to believe as I do. 

I promise you, that Jeff is in the same class. I have watched his writings and could argue minor details of our theology. And I would not consider him my enemy. I doubt he would consider me his, even though he would disagree wtih me on those details. 

Today, there was a friendly discussion between an Army man, and his Navy counter-part, that I was aware of, within my company. The discussion was one of friendly enmity. They see the world differently, and their experiences are based on different lines, But, drop a couple of Islamic extremists into the room and watch how the sides line up.  I would ask you both to consider that.

Things have gone too far, but have not gone so far as to be irreparable. Please, my friends, let some time pass. Let the blood cool. Decide on mutually assured forgiveness.  Whether you think the other deserves it or not. neither of you has to carry this burden forward. Grudges are heavy and only damage the person who carries them.

Our small community needs both of you. I need you both. Stop. Please.

"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest <> of freedom, go <>in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. <>may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.-- Samuel Adams 1776
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