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Author Topic: Symbolism over substance, the problems of fake problem solving  (Read 881 times)
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chrstnhsbndfthr
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« on: June 22, 2015, 10:46:55 PM »

As a Christian, and a man with a mixed race family, I was distressed by the attack on a group of black Christians in South Carolina. It is to their credit and that of their Christian families that they have overcome, and turned tragedy into opportunity. They have preached Christ crucified in their actions and in their words they have taught forgiveness on a personal level, while calling for a criminal prosecution. Their behavior has worked to call together decent human beings from both near and far to stand against racism, terrorism, and hate.  They have been a shining lesson to the county and have embarrassed those with racist hearts and evil motives.

We must not minimize what they have accomplished here. Some small-minded people seek to reduce this work, this great sacrifice to symbolism. Let it never be!

There are some calling for the tearing down of venerable symbols to show how far we have come. Let us take care. We cannot control what good thing a terrorist or a racist will use to further their cause among the ignorant.

I ask you bluntly, does it make the cross a racist symbol, because a racist burns one in the yard of a black family? The evil lies in the heart of the arsonist, the racist, the man or men filled with hate. it does not lie in the symbol. Attacking a symbol of freedom fighters from our history, because some abuse it now is similar foolishness. Let the blame reside where it belongs, which is directly upon the hearts of those who do evil. Let us not minimize their evil by blaming a symbol, whose basis has nothing to do with racism, but is being appropriated by evil, just as the cross has been.

It is well known that the Democrat party has racist roots from the defense of slavery to the Jim Crow era, to their opposition to voting rights for blacks, yet should we stop in every pasture and punish donkeys for their sins? Of course not. It would be absurd. Let the sins be upon the heads and hearts of the sinners, not upon the symbol.

Dylann Roof is accountable for his wickedness, not a flag, not a cross, not a donkey. Let him suffer the full weight of his own actions and not empower other racists by giving them symbols to rally around.
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"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest <> of freedom, go <>in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. <>may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.-- Samuel Adams 1776
noway2
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2015, 07:33:58 AM »

The flag should stay.  The minority view of it is as a symbol of slavery and racism; an incorrect view.  I've seen similar minority views stating that the American Civil War 1.0 / War of Northern Aggression was about slavery.  Neither is true.
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Silk_Hope
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2015, 08:09:23 AM »

History is being rewritten and the Confederate Flag is the next symbol to be destroyed.

People do not understand the 10th Amendment and the Confederacy and the reason why the North did not want to let the resource rich Southern States leave the Union. Abraham Lincoln was no saint in fact he was a tyrant:

Lincoln was the greatest tyrant and despot in American history. In the first four months of his presidency, he created a complete military dictatorship, destroyed the Constitution, ended forever the constitutional republic which the Founding Fathers instituted, committed horrendous crimes against civilian citizens, and formed the tyrannical, overbearing and oppressive Federal government which the American people suffer under to this day. In his first four months, he:

1.Failed to call Congress into session after the South fired upon Fort Sumter, in direct violation of the Constitution.

2.Called up an army of 75,000 men, bypassing the Congressional authority in direct violation of the Constitution.

3.Unilaterally suspended the writ of habeas corpus, a function of Congress, violating the Constitution. This gave him the power, as he saw it, to arrest civilians without charge and imprison them indefinitely without trial—which he did.

4.Ignored a Supreme Court order to restore the right of habeas corpus, thus violating the Constitution again and ignoring the Separation of Powers which the Founders put in place exactly for the purpose of preventing one man’s using tyrannical powers in the executive.

5.When the Chief Justice forwarded a copy of the Supreme Court’s decision to Lincoln, he wrote out an order for the arrest of the Chief Justice and gave it to a U.S. Marshall for expedition, in violation of the Constitution.

6.Unilaterally ordered a naval blockade of southern ports, an act of war, and a responsibility of Congress, in violation of the Constitution.

7.Commandeered and closed over 300 newspapers in the North, because of editorials against his war policy and his illegal military invasion of the South. This clearly violated the First Amendment freedom of speech and press clauses.

8.Sent in Army forces to destroy the printing presses and other machinery at those newspapers, in violation of the Constitution.

9.Arrested the publishers, editors and owners of those newspapers, and imprisoned them without charge and without trial for the remainder of the war, all in direct violation of both the Constitution and the Supreme Court order aforementioned.

10.Arrested and imprisoned, without charge or trial, another 15,000-20,000 U.S. citizens who dared to speak out against the war, his policies, or were suspected of anti-war feelings. (Relative to the population at the time, this would be equivalent to President G.W. Bush arresting and imprisoning roughly 150,000-200,000 Americans without trial for “disagreeing” with the Iraq war; can you imagine?)

11.Sent the Army to arrest the entire legislature of Maryland to keep them from meeting legally, because they were debating a bill of secession; they were all imprisoned without charge or trial, in direct violation of the Constitution.

12.Unilaterally created the state of West Virginia in direct violation of the Constitution.

13.Sent 350,000 Northern men to their deaths to kill 350,000 Southern men in order to force the free and sovereign states of the South to remain in the Union they, the people, legally voted to peacefully withdraw from, all in order to continue the South’s revenue flow into the North.

https://snapoutofitamerica.wordpress.com/2014/01/20/the-terrible-truth-about-abraham-lincoln-and-the-confederate-war/
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That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government. -- Declaration of Independence
chrstnhsbndfthr
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2015, 04:53:16 PM »

There was a moment, just for a day or two, where the important thing was the community coming together and standing as one.  My emotional side held hope that we had turned a corner and people were showing the greatness that we all have potentially within us as children of God. 

The symbols were not what was important....it was the actions of good people. The longer we can focus on that, the better.

http://videodelivery.nbcnews.com/now/bypass/mp4/3aaae01e-e0f4-439d-aa7a-8d5e3e774105/00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000/3a41c6e4-93a3-4108-8995-64ffca7b9106/4c393b6b-6146-4ec5-9235-a9465bc47ce1/0/0/456/-1779206319/content.mp4?sid=131
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"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest <> of freedom, go <>in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. <>may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.-- Samuel Adams 1776
BOFH
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2015, 06:33:58 PM »

we all just need to watch blazing saddles together
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Silk_Hope
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2015, 07:53:49 PM »

Received this in an email:

I'm sorry but I'm about to preach and teach!! If you want to fight a cause, understand what you are fighting. First and foremost the Confederate Flag was never a national flag representing the South, it was a battle flag flown by several armies in Virginia. Even if it had been a national flag for the South, understand that the Civil War wasn't just over slavery, while it was the reason slavery ended, it was merely an excuse for the war. The North fought the war over money (the same reason we fight half the wars these days and excuse it by saying we're fighting for another cause. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, "Why not let the South go in peace?" To which he replied, "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel Northern aggression and invasion, because, and yes this is a true stereotype, us southerners don't like to be told what to do! Lol. The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels. To touch on another subject, many say that it's a symbol of hate because it was flown over slave ships, and that's false but guess what was? The American flag. Many also say it was the KKKs flag... Google KKK.... You will see them flying the American flag more so than the Confederate Flag.The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! I'm not saying this to down the American Flag because I love it just the same. I'm simply saying that, if the Confederate Flag should be removed, why not the American Flag?? The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money.... And did you know? At the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it's servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now.
Racism is being projected onto the Confederate Flag, which is in return, continuing the division among us. Just because one racist lunatic supported the confederate flag, doesn't mean every person who supports it is a racist.
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That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government. -- Declaration of Independence
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