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Author Topic: It should be about children, not about money  (Read 9300 times)
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UNC70
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« on: March 25, 2013, 12:32:38 PM »

"If you care about public education in our state, you need to make time to watch this video: public education expert Diane Ravitch visited NC last week and set the record straight on so-called "reform" of our public schools. We had no idea we were being fed so much misinformation, but her evidence is crystal clear.
Myth 1: our public schools are failing. They are not. Graduation rates and test scores are the highest in history.
Myth #2: charter and voucher schools perform better. They do not -- and that's despite the fact they cherry pick the best students and send the others packing back to the public schools. Other truths Ravitch offered, along with the evidence it is so: tenure is NOT the same in K-12 as at universities and eliminating it is dangerous; evaluating teachers by student test scores is wildly inaccurate and unscientific; assigning grades to schools is the first step in shutting down a school so that its space can be used by private interests; charter schools are a multi-million dollar industry rife with corruption, as the experience of other states has proved. Know the facts. Spread the truth. Watch this video: http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2013/03/22/diane-ravitch-on-the-future-of-public-education-in-the-united-states-full-video/
"Progress North Carolina

It is worth the time to listen to the whole video.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 01:33:23 AM by UNC70, Reason: typo » Logged

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Gene Galin
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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2013, 12:49:35 PM »

Myth #2: charter and voucher schools perform better. They do not -- and that's despite the fact they cherry pick the best students and send the others packing back to the public schools.


UNC70, how exactly do charter schools in North Carolina "cherry pick" the best students?

At Woods Charter School, students are selected annually via a lottery system. The lottery takes place in public and is open to all who wish to observe.

As for school performance, Woods Charter School seems to do just fine.

Wood Charter School Class of 2011 (42 students)
 
PSAT
 Critical Reading Math Writing
 Woods 54.7 54.5 51.8
 NC 46.5 48.6 44.2
 USA 47.3 48.9 45.4

SAT
 Critical Reading & Math | Writing Composite | Score
 Woods 1140 556 1696
 NC 1001 474 1475
 USA 1011 489 1500
 Note: Tied for 4th highest M & CR score in the state of NC
 
ACT Composite
 Woods Charter 25.5
 NC 21.9
 USA 21.1

For more information about Woods Charter School, go to http://www.woodscharter.org/
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 12:55:04 PM by Gene Galin » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2013, 01:07:57 PM »

Chatham Charter uses the lottery system too. The new high school is filled with students from Chatham, Randolph and Alamance Counties, staffing is taking place (Beth McCullough is the new High School Principal) and buildings and athletic fields are under construction.

The Board of Education looks at the money that the Charter Schools "take" from them. The Charters are more efficient in their use of funds for educating students and from I have experienced they concentrate more on the individual student rather than a select group. All children are encouraged and propelled to succeed. Having Charters also takes the pressure off of the school systems from having to construct buildings, staff and provide transportation.

Parents choose to send their kids to Charter Schools, it take a sacrifice of time and effort to do so. It is amazing the parental involvement the Charters have when it comes to fundraising and activities.

So UNC70, unless you have experienced or had kids in a Charter you do not know what you are talking about. I for one am glad that in less than 3 months my kid is public school free.
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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2013, 01:12:31 PM »

Having parents fund the education of their own children would put an end all around to the "take" argument.
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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2013, 01:25:55 PM »

To clarify Beth McCullough is the new assistant principal, Beth is great and will be an excellent AP, I wish her the best. Eldridge is the new principal.

I would have no problem with charter schools if they practice a random lottery. Every student within a certain radius is entered into the lottery regardless of parents participation, of course the parents would have the right to refuse the selection. Then it would be a simple comparison to argue the superiority of a charter or a traditional public school system.  

I also realize that this is not going to win any popularity awards but here is another issue I have with Chatham Charter as it currently stands. This is the most recent statistics I could find.

Chatham Charter Students by Ethnicity:
American Indian - 0 (0%)
Asian - 0 (0%)
Black - 95 (33%)
Hispanic - 7 (2%)
White - 185 (64%)

compared to Siler City's census data -

        White persons, percent, 2010 (a)   44.0%   68.5%
   Black persons, percent, 2010 (a)   19.1%   21.5%
   American Indian and Alaska Native persons, percent, 2010 (a)   1.7%   1.3%
   Asian persons, percent, 2010 (a)   0.4%   2.2%
   Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, percent, 2010 (a)   0.2%   0.1%
   Persons reporting two or more races, percent, 2010   3.4%   2.2%
   Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2010 (b)   49.8%   8.4%
   White persons not Hispanic, percent, 2010   29.2%   65.3%

If we are truly preparing our students to compete in a global economy why are we creating new schools that don't even reflect the diversity of the immediate community?

Now - excuse me while I run and hide.

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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2013, 01:26:29 PM »

Quote
Having parents fund the education of their own children would put an end all around to the "take" argument.

Sounds Ok to me.
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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2013, 01:46:58 PM »

To clarify Beth McCullough is the new assistant principal, Beth is great and will be an excellent AP, I wish her the best. Eldridge is the new principal.

I would have no problem with charter schools if they practice a random lottery. Every student within a certain radius is entered into the lottery regardless of parents participation, of course the parents would have the right to refuse the selection. Then it would be a simple comparison to argue the superiority of a charter or a traditional public school system.  

I also realize that this is not going to win any popularity awards but here is another issue I have with Chatham Charter as it currently stands. This is the most recent statistics I could find.

Chatham Charter Students by Ethnicity:
American Indian - 0 (0%)
Asian - 0 (0%)
Black - 95 (33%)
Hispanic - 7 (2%)
White - 185 (64%)

compared to Siler City's census data -

        White persons, percent, 2010 (a)   44.0%   68.5%
   Black persons, percent, 2010 (a)   19.1%   21.5%
   American Indian and Alaska Native persons, percent, 2010 (a)   1.7%   1.3%
   Asian persons, percent, 2010 (a)   0.4%   2.2%
   Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, percent, 2010 (a)   0.2%   0.1%
   Persons reporting two or more races, percent, 2010   3.4%   2.2%
   Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2010 (b)   49.8%   8.4%
   White persons not Hispanic, percent, 2010   29.2%   65.3%

If we are truly preparing our students to compete in a global economy why are we creating new schools that don't even reflect the diversity of the immediate community?

Now - excuse me while I run and hide.



You should go hide.  There is no proven value of "di-VER-sity" in the schools or anywhere, global economy and immediate "community" notwithstanding.  It's another myth promoted by the multi-cultis.  Most of us decent folk raised without this relativist garbage have managed to get along just fine with others, without feeling the need to "celebrate our differences", but by focusing on our similarities.

And who is this "we" creating new schools, other than people who have made certain choices with regard to educating their children, none of which contain the evils you seem to find present when there aren't the required number of different beans representative of the "immediate community" or population at large.
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« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2013, 01:47:39 PM »

John Eldrige is the Headmaster, not the principal.

Parents choose to send their kids to Charter, it is not a matter of meeting diversity levels.
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« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2013, 01:47:48 PM »

There is so much error in the post that it is almost not worth responding to. As a manager and a business owner, I can tell you plainly that the high school diploma of today is of almost no value in evaluating a potential employee. There are certainly some who manage to get an education, but there are others who graduate from high schools in North Carolina who cannot read and comprehend, nor can they handle basic math skills needed to read a tape measure, for example. There is no uniform test that we can compare to different eras in education, but we can certainly see the difference in the general abilities of the graduates of 50 years ago and those of today. There is no comparison. We have declined greatly in our ability to produce productive and self-sufficient citizens.

And your comments about "cherry picking" by charter schools demonstrates your ignorance on this subject. Schools do not pick students. The families may desire better for their kids than they are receiving in the public schools, and choose to flee to alternatives like Charter Schools, which are STILL public schools! And they provide education for less money per student than is being spent in traditional public schools. There is then a lottery system that prevents "cherry picking."


The implication that Charter Schools destroy or damage traditional education is nonsense. It actually frees up money that does not have to be spent on students who do not want to be there. That should be viewed as a win-win situation, were it not about the power and control.  I see it as a good thing that parents get involved and try to help their children get a better education. Why would ANYONE oppose that?

I have two questions for you: One, if it is a good thing that Charter Schools can be shut down if they are shown to be ineffective, why is it a bad thing if a traditional public school can be shut down for being ineffective?
And IF you can measure whether a public Charter School is performing effectively or not, why couldn't we measure whether a traditional public school is doing well or not?
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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2013, 01:52:25 PM »

John Eldrige is the Headmaster, not the principal.

Parents choose to send their kids to Charter, it is not a matter of meeting diversity levels.

He's not concerned about di-VER-sity, per se; he's bothered because there are too many White kids.
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2013, 01:56:00 PM »

Quote
John Eldrige is the Headmaster, not the principal.

Fair enough Eldrige is the "headmaster", but according to Beth, she's still the AP.
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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2013, 01:56:16 PM »

John Eldrige is the Headmaster, not the principal.

Parents choose to send their kids to Charter, it is not a matter of meeting diversity levels.

He's not concerned about di-VER-sity, per se; he's bothered because there are too many White kids.

And most of the students going to Chatham Charter are from the Jordan Matthews district where he teaches.
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« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2013, 01:57:08 PM »

Quote
John Eldrige is the Headmaster, not the principal.

Fair enough Eldrige is the "headmaster", but according to Beth, she's still the AP.

I talked to Dr. Eldridge, he refered to her as the Principal.
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« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2013, 02:04:40 PM »

Per Beth McCullough's official announcement -

Quote
On May 1st I will move to Chatham Charter School in Siler City as an assistant principal.

I guess someone had better inform her of the promotion!
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« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2013, 02:11:41 PM »

Quote
And most of the students going to Chatham Charter are from the Jordan Matthews district where he teaches.

Ohhhhhh...... sorry to disappoint but this is my last year at Jordan-Matthews. You are going to be truly disturbed by where I'm headed next.
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