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Title: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: Ice Pilot2 on June 06, 2017, 06:43:45 AM
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/chatham-county/article154446014.html (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/chatham-county/article154446014.html)


http://abc11.com/news/missing-teens-body-found-in-chatham-county-lake/2066636/ (http://abc11.com/news/missing-teens-body-found-in-chatham-county-lake/2066636/)


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: 1911A on June 06, 2017, 12:22:02 PM
That's a shame.  Seems like some funny business goes on at the lake.


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: Ice Pilot2 on June 06, 2017, 01:05:33 PM
That's a shame.  Seems like some funny business goes on at the lake.


Check this out:

http://jhs-alumni.com/12420/Sugar_Lake_Then_and_Now (http://jhs-alumni.com/12420/Sugar_Lake_Then_and_Now)


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: 1911A on June 06, 2017, 05:59:35 PM
Thanks.  I've been aware of its history.


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: Ice Pilot2 on June 07, 2017, 07:28:29 AM
Thanks.  I've been aware of its history.

 Many relatively "new" people to the county are not aware of it being there, much less the history.   It is indeed an interesting place with a colorful history.  


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: 1911A on June 07, 2017, 04:45:09 PM
Thanks.  I've been aware of its history.

 Many relatively "new" people to the county are not aware of it being there, much less the history.   It is indeed an interesting place with a colorful history.  

The fewer people know it's there, the better; it's private property and posted as such.


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: Ice Pilot2 on June 08, 2017, 07:29:01 AM

The fewer people know it's there, the better; it's private property and posted as such.

Not sure I agree with that.  There are enough young people that know about it, but, perhaps their parents do not.  High School students still frequent the place illegally, and are usually engaged in, shall I say "under age" consumption of beverages.   

The whole Private Property posting is confusing to me.  Most property is private in our county. (well maybe not if we count all the acreage taken in by Jordan Lake and it surrounding land !)   Being on privately owned property without permission is trespassing.   With or without a posted sign.    Guess the signs are like locks on doors.  They mostly keep the honest people out.   

Regarding this property, it is just too bad that some development or use of it could not be planned, designed and built.  Perhaps that would eliminate the trespassing and various risky activities.  Would probably be pretty costly though.


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: Pi on June 08, 2017, 08:58:39 AM

The fewer people know it's there, the better; it's private property and posted as such.

The whole Private Property posting is confusing to me.  though.

1911A is correct.  The fewer people that know about it, the better.  This incident where the young man lost his life will probably only encourage others to want to go there.  If only to assuage their curiosity.  Therefore, the fewer that know about it, the better.

I believe the operative part of the phrase Private Property is the word "private".  The less people know, the better.  It's for the same reason you would would never publicly list all the valuable items in your home and then provide the address.  It's better for others simply not to know, if possible.  If the cat is already out of the bag, it serves nothing to rehash it.

Since it is private property, what exactly gives us the right to ask that it be developed for public use?


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: Ice Pilot2 on June 08, 2017, 10:48:38 AM
Since it is private property, what exactly gives us the right to ask that it be developed for public use?

My thought was not asking for it to be developed for public use.  Actually, the opposite.  Developed for private use, was my thought.  Perhaps with more physical barriers and controlled access.  SCUBA lessons/club?   RV campground?    Never been there, don't know the terrain.  Dunno.  Maybe it's current use is the highest and best use the owners have in mind.   Their choice for sure.  


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: Pi on June 08, 2017, 02:34:59 PM
Maybe it's current use is the highest and best use the owners have in mind.  

Hmm.  Maybe it's a really good fishing hole?


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: ParkRanger on June 08, 2017, 05:48:38 PM
so why develop it at all? 

if it's privately developed for the commercial use mentioned above,
there are all sorts of liabilities and headaches involved.   

Fence it, Post it and call to have trespassers removed and arrested. 

If it's private property, the owner(s) don't have to do anything with it.


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: 1911A on June 09, 2017, 06:11:13 AM

The fewer people know it's there, the better; it's private property and posted as such.

Not sure I agree with that.  There are enough young people that know about it, but, perhaps their parents do not.  High School students still frequent the place illegally, and are usually engaged in, shall I say "under age" consumption of beverages.

I mentioned why in a previous post -- and you just listed another one of the big reasons -- shenanigans happen often there to/with people that have no business being on the property.  I fail to see how their parents not knowing changes anything.

When #64 was being widened, some genius and friends thought it was a brilliant idea to steal a piece of heavy equipment and drive it right into the water.

The owners have to keep reinforcing the only entry opening in the rocks/trees to keep people out.


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: 1911A on June 09, 2017, 06:16:24 AM
so why develop it at all? 

if it's privately developed for the commercial use mentioned above,
there are all sorts of liabilities and headaches involved.   

Fence it, Post it and call to have trespassers removed and arrested. 

If it's private property, the owner(s) don't have to do anything with it.

Exactly.

If it was my property, I'd worry about liability issues regarding trespassers.  Does "posting" alleviate that?


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: Ice Pilot2 on June 09, 2017, 07:02:45 AM

If it's private property, the owner(s) don't have to do anything with it.

Agree 100%.    Just sayn' they could if they wanted to.  

Seems like a pretty big tax liability and headache for them and the community right now.    Seems.   Again, don't know much about it.   Hasn't there been several drownings there over years? ( years after/since it was closed to the public)    


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: Ice Pilot2 on June 09, 2017, 07:07:43 AM

Exactly.

If it was my property, I'd worry about liability issues regarding trespassers.  Does "posting" alleviate that?

Agree, me too.  Good question about "posted".    Don't homeowner insurance companies require pool owners to have them fully fenced in or enclosed in order to provide liability  insurance coverage?   Think so.    That might not be apples to apples though. 


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: Ice Pilot2 on June 09, 2017, 07:09:12 AM

Hmm.  Maybe it's a really good fishing hole?

Gotta be something to the owners, one would think!


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: 1911A on June 09, 2017, 07:10:15 AM

If it's private property, the owner(s) don't have to do anything with it.

Agree 100%.    Just sayn' they could if they wanted to.  

Seems like a pretty big tax liability and headache for them and the community right now.    Seems.   Again, don't know much about it.   Hasn't been several drownings there over years? ( years after/since it was closed to the public)    

Which is why, and now I'm repeating myself, the fewer people know about the place, the better.  Good grief.


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: Ice Pilot2 on June 09, 2017, 08:20:29 AM

Exactly.

If it was my property, I'd worry about liability issues regarding trespassers.  Does "posting" alleviate that?

Agree, me too.  Good question about "posted".    Don't homeowner insurance companies require pool owners to have them fully fenced in or enclosed in order to provide liability  insurance coverage?   Think so.    That might not be apples to apples though.  



When #64 was being widened, some genius and friends thought it was a brilliant idea to steal a piece of heavy equipment and drive it right into the water.


Yeah, I've heard that from many people.  Along with other things.   Heard, have not confirmed, that a SCUBA club/organization of some sort has used or does use the place for certification and recreation. 


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: natvrabit on June 09, 2017, 07:24:01 PM
I went there in early 70's when it wasn't off limits. Was just a simple place to go cool off for a swim with locals. Word spread and it got out of control. Parties, diving off the cliffs bean. I stopped going because it was no longer peaceful or enjoyable. Bad apples spoiled the basket thing.

This was not the 1st person to die in there and maybe not the last. Has been posted/no trespassing etc. for decades. Diving off a rock quarry cliff into deep waters not knowing what jagged remains are underneath the water just isn't very bright to begin with just saying. Dive into a boulder, the boulder is going to win.

Sorry this young man lost his life and prayers for his family.


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: dmccarty on June 12, 2017, 07:55:37 PM
...

If it was my property, I'd worry about liability issues regarding trespassers.  Does "posting" alleviate that?

Posting minimizes liability since the trespasser is committing a crime to be on the property. 

Later,
Dan


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: 1911A on June 13, 2017, 05:20:55 AM
Thank you for the information, Dan.


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: Ice Pilot2 on June 13, 2017, 08:22:01 AM
...

If it was my property, I'd worry about liability issues regarding trespassers.  Does "posting" alleviate that?

Posting minimizes liability since the trespasser is committing a crime to be on the property. 

Later,
Dan

That makes perfect sense.  With laws and courts being what they are, I'd bet liability is not eliminated.  Too Bad.   Especially in cases like this, where someone really has to ignore signs, go around, through or over clear barriers to entry.   


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: TCD on June 13, 2017, 02:00:38 PM
Give credit where due, WRAL never identified the lake as far as I can tell.

http://www.wral.com/body-of-missing-apex-19-year-old-found-in-chatham-county-lake/16744167/ (http://www.wral.com/body-of-missing-apex-19-year-old-found-in-chatham-county-lake/16744167/)


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: 1911A on June 13, 2017, 04:28:08 PM
Give credit where due, WRAL never identified the lake as far as I can tell.

[url]http://www.wral.com/body-of-missing-apex-19-year-old-found-in-chatham-county-lake/16744167/[/url] ([url]http://www.wral.com/body-of-missing-apex-19-year-old-found-in-chatham-county-lake/16744167/[/url])


Maybe not, but I remember a source calling it Sugar Lake.  Which, of course, is not its name, but there ya go.


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: natvrabit on June 13, 2017, 07:36:30 PM
Give credit where due, WRAL never identified the lake as far as I can tell.

[url]http://www.wral.com/body-of-missing-apex-19-year-old-found-in-chatham-county-lake/16744167/[/url] ([url]http://www.wral.com/body-of-missing-apex-19-year-old-found-in-chatham-county-lake/16744167/[/url])


Maybe not, but I remember a source calling it Sugar Lake.  Which, of course, is not its name, but there ya go.


Well, to anyone that has lived here any great length of time~Sugar Lake would be a well known 'name' and where and what it is or was.. There ya' go.
It's an abandoned quarry with some dangerous cliffs that many attempted and some with not too successful outcomes...like most quarry holes. Sorry this young man lost his life there. Likely dared the cliff dives and lost?


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: Ice Pilot2 on June 14, 2017, 06:52:09 AM
Likely dared the cliff dives and lost?

Sadly no.   This time, word on the street is,  it was a young man one year graduated from Northwood, alcohol, and a few questions for those there with him.  Still under investigation by our Sheriff's office.    


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: 1911A on June 14, 2017, 10:34:45 AM
Give credit where due, WRAL never identified the lake as far as I can tell.

[url]http://www.wral.com/body-of-missing-apex-19-year-old-found-in-chatham-county-lake/16744167/[/url] ([url]http://www.wral.com/body-of-missing-apex-19-year-old-found-in-chatham-county-lake/16744167/[/url])


Maybe not, but I remember a source calling it Sugar Lake.  Which, of course, is not its name, but there ya go.


Well, to anyone that has lived here any great length of time~Sugar Lake would be a well known 'name' and where and what it is or was.. There ya' go.
It's an abandoned quarry with some dangerous cliffs that many attempted and some with not too successful outcomes...like most quarry holes. Sorry this young man lost his life there. Likely dared the cliff dives and lost?


Just can't resist the snark, can you.


Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: natvrabit on June 14, 2017, 01:10:28 PM
Give credit where due, WRAL never identified the lake as far as I can tell.

[url]http://www.wral.com/body-of-missing-apex-19-year-old-found-in-chatham-county-lake/16744167/[/url] ([url]http://www.wral.com/body-of-missing-apex-19-year-old-found-in-chatham-county-lake/16744167/[/url])


Maybe not, but I remember a source calling it Sugar Lake.  Which, of course, is not its name, but there ya go.


Well, to anyone that has lived here any great length of time~Sugar Lake would be a well known 'name' and where and what it is or was.. There ya' go.
It's an abandoned quarry with some dangerous cliffs that many attempted and some with not too successful outcomes...like most quarry holes. Sorry this young man lost his life there. Likely dared the cliff dives and lost?


Just can't resist the snark, can you.

Only snark is you. I'm merely stating what I know of the property and how dangerous it can be. I witnessed a diving injury there. I never went back. I put ? mark behind if diving off cliffs, because that is how most injuries or deaths here or in other quarries have happened. Often times alcohol etc. involved. This site's been posted for no entry for decades. That is known as trespassing. I don't see where the property owner should be held liable. Signs are posted for a reason. They assisted in rescue effort by clearing a pathway for emergency responders to access it sounds like. It's not a public property.

Again, sad for the young man's loss of life and to his family for their loss. Hopefully his friends learned some hard lessons as well.





Title: Re: Young Man dies in Chatham County
Post by: Ice Pilot2 on June 15, 2017, 07:59:37 AM
-19-year-old-found-in-chatham-county-lake/16744167/[/url]

Maybe not, but I remember a source calling it Sugar Lake. 

Does anyone know the origin of the name of the road?