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Chatham County Online => Chatham County Online => Topic started by: Muddylaces on February 22, 2017, 07:53:12 PM



Title: Brake checker
Post by: Muddylaces on February 22, 2017, 07:53:12 PM
So I was driving up business 64 west to the bypass today with a white suv in front of me.   I think he was trying to teach me a lesson for tailgating him as we pulled on the bypass.   I did crowd him a bit, I was increasing speed to pull on the bypass, and I thought he was doing the same.   Instead, he chose to brake check me.    But here is the lesson pal, everything is on video these days, and while you may have had fun playing this game in the past, because the driver in the rear would be found at fault in a wreck.    Those days are over, keep playing that game and you'll find yourself a vehicular manslaughter charge.



https://youtu.be/GvZ3EmT1cVQ


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: Silk_Hope on February 22, 2017, 09:14:37 PM
IMO you were fine, they were being a jerk.


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: kstraughn on February 23, 2017, 06:32:26 AM
Hope you "waved" on your way past, they deserved it.


Title: Re: Fact checker
Post by: Ice Pilot2 on February 23, 2017, 08:52:32 AM
I am not a lawyer and don't even play one on TV, but, imho, you both could have been ruled "contributing parties" if there had been contact.

It appears you were following too closely for much too long - for both your speed and the wet road conditions.  The other driver appears to have braked twice without a "reason" ( dunno if that is even a legal premise).   The video evidence is great - for both parties.

Never have seen the downside to keeping a good safe distance between my front and someone's rear. (vehicles folks!)   Learned that as a school bus driver, back in the dark ages when NC let us High School students drive school buses.  5 speed stick with a clutch -  never heard of an accident in our school system caused by one of us young drivers either.  Must have been some somewhere though, the thought of letting teenagers drive school buses today would be treated as a criminal offense.  




Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: TCD on February 23, 2017, 10:34:46 AM
and while you may have had fun playing this game in the past, because the driver in the rear would be found at fault in a wreck.  


That was never the case. It's a myth. 

I was on a jury for a rear-end collision case many years ago, long before dashcams existed.  We were instructed that the party in front also has an obligation to take care, including not braking suddenly for no reason.

It's true you are negligent if you rear-end someone.  But the person you rear-ended can be contributorily negligent.  And someone who is contributorily negligent in NC cannot collect damages.  None.  There is no "you were 60% negligent and he was 40% so you have to pay 60%".  In NC if you someone is even 0.001% negligent, they cannot collect.

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/north-carolina-law/north-carolina-negligence-laws.html (http://statelaws.findlaw.com/north-carolina-law/north-carolina-negligence-laws.html)


Title: Re: Fact checker
Post by: Muddylaces on February 23, 2017, 11:28:08 AM
I am not a lawyer and don't even play one on TV, but, imho, you both could have been ruled "contributing parties" if there had been contact.

It appears you were following too closely for much too long - for both your speed and the wet road conditions.  The other driver appears to have braked twice without a "reason" ( dunno if that is even a legal premise).   The video evidence is great - for both parties.

Never have seen the downside to keeping a good safe distance between my front and someone's rear. (vehicles folks!)   Learned that as a school bus driver, back in the dark ages when NC let us High School students drive school buses.  5 speed stick with a clutch -  never heard of an accident in our school system caused by one of us young drivers either.  Must have been some somewhere though, the thought of letting teenagers drive school buses today would be treated as a criminal offense.  





You know.  I do think I was too close, he was varying his speed for some reason causing me to ride up on him and then having to back off, but not close enough to anger a reasonable person.    Also, at the first brake check I was speeding up to pass when I noticed the suburban in my blind spot.    


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: Silk_Hope on February 23, 2017, 12:10:04 PM
Here is the Chatham problem, many of us drive in Raleigh and Greensboro everyday, city driving and congested highway driving. US 64 is becoming more and more congested and faster. Sure the NCHP is out there but they only catch a few. Going 70-80 on the Pittsboro bypass is normal speed, US-64 Pittsboro to Siler 65 seems to be the norm. So we have slower, drivers on a busy highway with metro drivers. Too close for a rural driver is not too close for a Raleigh driver.

We also have a lot of transplant drivers, DC, Baltimore, New York, LA, Chicago, Atlanta etc all drivers that drive in traffic differently. We are not in Mayberry anymore.


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: Ice Pilot2 on February 23, 2017, 12:29:11 PM
Too close for a rural driver is not too close for a Raleigh driver.

We also have a lot of transplant drivers, DC, Baltimore, New York, LA, Chicago, Atlanta etc all drivers that drive in traffic differently. We are not in Mayberry anymore.


Too close is not a matter of geography.  Safe following distances should factor in speed and road conditions.  It is a matter of physics.  

Being safe and respectful is not limited to fictional Mayberry, or whether someone else drives "differently".    

I learned the 2 second "rule" when I was 16 years old.  Have driven many many times in every city mentioned except Chicago.  Just because all the type A's on their roads follow too close, does not mean I have too.  Arriving 5 minutes later is still arriving.    Like one of my neighbors was fond of saying; " If you are in that big of a hurry, you should have left earlier."

http://www.drive-safely.net/safe-following-distance/ (http://www.drive-safely.net/safe-following-distance/)


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: Pi on February 23, 2017, 12:39:10 PM
Too close is not a matter of geography.  Safe following distances should factor in speed and road conditions.  It is a matter of physics. 

Being safe and respectful is not limited to fictional Mayberry, or whether someone else drives "differently".     

Exactly.  Couldn't have said it better myself.

What people need to understand is that slow drivers are not to blame for you being 2 minutes late for work or whatever event you're going to.  It is your responsibility to factor in things like traffic and other road issues.

If you want to get there earlier, tailgating and speeding are not solutions.  The solution is to begin your commute a few minutes earlier.  This is something everyone (be they transplants or locals) should understand.


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: Pi on February 23, 2017, 12:40:04 PM
" If you are in that big of a hurry, you should have left earlier."

Yup, I see you were editing your post while I was typing mine.  =)


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: natvrabit on February 23, 2017, 03:18:50 PM
Personally I hate tailgaters. Anything can happen~such as a deer darting across the road, something flying out of a vehicle in front of you etc. requiring you to have to brake harder than normal.
Just not a good practice.

I drive 64 between Siler and PBO often enough to also know some areas pool water when raining and some vehicles get the tire grab effect more than others. I have AWD and I've felt it on that road.

Also see a lot of HP on that stretch and I 'thank' them as I drive past when have someone pulled over for going 80 in 55 zone weaving in and out endangering others ;) It's the law and not about where you were born or 'came from'.


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: Muddylaces on February 23, 2017, 03:55:31 PM
Neither of us were speeding.   He was varying his speed for some reason from 55 down to 50 and then back up....My app used to record speed too, not sure when it stopped doing that function.    

Also to an earlier post about the one fingered salute.   I don't do that.   It was an everyday occurrence seeing that in Massachusetts, and I'm not going to contribute to it turning into a common occurrence here.


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: Axiomatic on February 23, 2017, 04:33:55 PM
I had to go watch again after some of the comments ;'}

Not knowing the speeds makes it harder to judge but you weren't too close until the 0:40 mark - which was 1.5 seconds before the idiot brake-checked you. That means that just as you are approaching the "too close" range he was already scheming to initiate that act. And when I say that I want to clarify that at no time were you dangerously close.

I guarantee that this is not the first time that klown has done that (or the last).

The funny thing is that u-toob gave us a bunch of other videos - all based on keywords. So (if you watched any) you got to see some serious tailgating!

From my perspective the only thing you may have done differently would have possibly been to try to increase the following distance faster once the klown checked you (but not really). What I observed was that you didn't show a reaction, which would have served as bait for a road-rager (and yes, people who brake-check are classic ragers).

My .02

 ;D


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: 1911A on February 23, 2017, 10:22:54 PM
Aaahhhh, the guy was messing with his phone.  Slow down/speed up = classic.


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: Ice Pilot2 on February 24, 2017, 08:42:39 AM

Not knowing the speeds makes it harder to judge but you weren't too close .........


Knowing the speed is not necessary.  Too close is really a matter of time between vehicles. With that in mind, a safe distance will increase as speed increases.  2 seconds at 70 mph is going to be a lot more distance than 2 seconds at 35 mph.   

It appears to me,  and I think Muddy after further review, that he was indeed too close.  Using the 2 second "rule" he was less than that during most of the recorded and shared video.  Plus with a wet road surface, it is prudent to increase the time to more than 2 seconds.   

So, it looks like this is shaping up to be a matter of public opinion from each of our individual perspectives.  Bad example, but, perhaps kind of like how one person thinks they are fine to drive after drinking just a couple of beers, but, another will believe that is criminal.    It's all good until something bad happens.    Provoked or not.



Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: Ice Pilot2 on February 24, 2017, 08:44:45 AM
Aaahhhh, the guy was messing with his phone.  Slow down/speed up = classic.

I just want to yell ; "Citizens Arrest, Citizens Arrest!"  every time I see examples of that!


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: 1911A on February 24, 2017, 10:54:49 AM
Aaahhhh, the guy was messing with his phone.  Slow down/speed up = classic.

I just want to yell ; "Citizens Arrest, Citizens Arrest!"  every time I see examples of that!

Heh.  Many, many times, I wish I had a sign with "get OFF the effin FONE!!" on it to hold up to the window.

They're a pox on the roadways, I'm tellin' ya.  I've watched people in parking lots get in their vehicles, then get on the phone and try to back out of the space.

Oblivions:  they walk, and drive, amongst us.


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: WolfpackFan on February 25, 2017, 10:18:51 AM
I think it is pretty obvious from the video that Muddy was in this person's safe space.  ;)


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: mary51802 on February 25, 2017, 01:06:26 PM
Tailgating can lead to issues. I agree it is difficult when people vary speed a lot. I was actually doing 60 in a 55 very steady on 42 and did not even realize a guy was right behind me. There is a section in a curve where some guys ducks graze near the road everyday. One day they where flying at car height across the road and I came up on them suddenly. It was just a gut reaction to hit the brakes as ay first I dd not know what it was. The idiot behind me hit the hooks and went off the road to avoid hitting me. I did not even come to a complete stop, just tapped them for a second. I stopped to see if he was OK and he cussed me out. Rude drivers for sure.


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: munn5 on February 26, 2017, 10:19:11 PM
Lots of reasons for variable speed - in my case it is usually sneezing multiple times in a row from allergies.

Don't tailgate. Just don't. Deer and other animals. Trash blowing across the road or laying in my lane. Blown tires.  Sneezing. All have happened to me.  I can control my reaction to what's in front of me, but you can't see what I see. 


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: Muddylaces on February 28, 2017, 10:06:32 PM
I was within the 2 seconds someone else mentioned....but I do not think I was in the tailgater zone.   It is interesting, my wife has adaptive control and the first setting is closer than 2 seconds. 


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: Cavegirl on March 01, 2017, 10:15:12 AM
You should have been six seconds behind in wet conditions.
http://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-and-safety-guideline/maintain-a-safe-following-distance-the-3-second-rule.html (http://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-and-safety-guideline/maintain-a-safe-following-distance-the-3-second-rule.html)
The 2 (or 3) second rule is for clear, dry conditions. 

And comparing to a computerized system, like your wife's driver assist, is comparing apples to oranges.  It will apply the brakes instantly if necessary.  I promise no human has computer reflexes.


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: Muddylaces on March 01, 2017, 10:47:01 AM
You should have been six seconds behind in wet conditions.
[url]http://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-and-safety-guideline/maintain-a-safe-following-distance-the-3-second-rule.html[/url] ([url]http://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-and-safety-guideline/maintain-a-safe-following-distance-the-3-second-rule.html[/url])
The 2 (or 3) second rule is for clear, dry conditions. 

And comparing to a computerized system, like your wife's driver assist, is comparing apples to oranges.  It will apply the brakes instantly if necessary.  I promise no human has computer reflexes.


I agree.  The radar system is going to be faster than almost anyone.  In fact, I engage it even driving around town when in her truck.  But the guy driving in front of me doesn't know if I have the system or not. 


BTW I had some rain drops on the windshield but it sprinkled for about 2 minutes.   Wet?  Maybe, but debatable.


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: natvrabit on March 01, 2017, 01:42:45 PM
Lots of reasons for variable speed - in my case it is usually sneezing multiple times in a row from allergies.

Don't tailgate. Just don't. Deer and other animals. Trash blowing across the road or laying in my lane. Blown tires.  Sneezing. All have happened to me.  I can control my reaction to what's in front of me, but you can't see what I see. 

Spot on. Happened to me last week on 15-50l. Cardboard box flew out of back end of an unsecured load/truck. Otherwise it appeared to be clear sailing down the road until~even in a 45 mph zone. I had to do a hard brake and person behind me almost ran into back of me. Yes, would have been their fault, but I'd been without my car for who knows how long with it in the shop ...minus wreck value if/when try to sell or trade it. Or worse physical injury in the mix.



Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: witler on March 20, 2017, 10:31:17 AM
Aaahhhh, the guy was messing with his phone.  Slow down/speed up = classic.

I agree, sounds like phone use, texting, calling or talking...when finished they blast off at twice the posted limit.


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: Silk_Hope on March 20, 2017, 01:38:00 PM
Aaahhhh, the guy was messing with his phone.  Slow down/speed up = classic.

I agree, sounds like phone use, texting, calling or talking...when finished they blast off at twice the posted limit.

Or at traffic lights they forget to go!


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: mary51802 on March 21, 2017, 08:21:20 AM
On the news Asheboro NC police just got a new technology system. A small box that is mounted on patrol cars that reads license plates as they go by. This is to stop red light runners and stop sign rollers as well as for speeders. No longer will a patrol car stop you, there will be a ticket to be mailed to your home. They are also doing random scans in parking lots looking for stolen cars. They are testing it and say by law they cannot keep data more than 90 days. If it tests well other NC municipalities will try it.

Watch out! I found out they have had these for 2 months already before the public found out.


Title: Re: Brake checker
Post by: natvrabit on March 21, 2017, 02:30:05 PM
Had my worst ever tailgater incident coming from Sanford to PBO other week with with a crazed dump/gravel truck driver. Not only did he almost run over me in an itty bitty loaner car, he almost ran another car off road and clip a logging truck with a full load because the punk behind the wheel wanted to run 80 in a 55 zone and he ran out of 4-lane. Tried to get logo off truck but couldn't, as I'd surely reported him. Road terrorism!