it has fallen to Obama to complete the process of cleaning up the mess of Reagan, Bush, Gingrich, Phil “foreclosure” Gramm and Bush II

[truth]

The Land Transfer Tax as implemented in Dare County and other counties in the district of NC Senator Mark Basnight at the 1% level was extraordinary good for those counties especially for schools and the year round residents.  In the case of the coastal counties that had great growth in vacation homes, that contributed few students to the local school system, it was a god send for local property owners that lived there year round.  Further, over the years the transfer tax was reduced from the initial 1% because it created sufficient funds for the local school system as well as making it possible to reduce the LTT without raising local property tax rates. In fact Dare County has one of the lowest property tax rates in the state.

In the case of the LTT passed in 2006, it was limited to 0.4% by the homebuilder and real estate lobby.  At this percentage it could not raise sufficient revenue to diminish the need for property tax increases or replace impact fees in those few counties that had them as Chatham did. 

In the case of Chatham in a normal economy a 1% LTT would have made it possible to eliminate the regressive impact fee which funded new schools.  The recent near second depression fundamentally made possible by the political leadership of the country and many citizens who swallowed hook line and sinker the Reagan doctrine that all government regulation was bad including the regulation of the investment banking sector.  This coupled with the Bush II administration’s unfortunate habit of putting into regulatory agencies incompetents (for example, Donaldson and Cox at the SEC, not to mention Brownie at FEMA) and this coupled with Greenspan at the Fed who thought that bankers would protect their self interests over maximizing their profits made the economic collapse all but inevitable.  It was truly poetic justice that Bush II and his Secretary of Treasury, Hank Paulson, of Goldman Sachs, had to pass the TARP rescue of the banking sector in 2008.  Still it has fallen to Obama to complete the process of cleaning up the mess of Reagan, Bush, Gingrich, Phil “foreclosure” Gramm and Bush II.

It is illogical to argue that a LTT at 1% that was not crippled by the real estate/home builders lobby to a 0.4% level could be a viable option in a normal economy, not one crippled by an economy only worse than that of the Great Depression, and could effectively reduce the pressure on property tax rates in Chatham County as well as eliminating the need for an impact fee.   

A LTT at 0.4% is too feeble a revenue source and as such is an impossible tax reform package to pass.

The Home Builder/Real Estate Lobby won in 2006 and returned to the property tax payer of Chatham County all the costs of residential growth incurred by their developments. The problem on funding schools and other infrastructure projects to support residential development is only on hold until the Reagan/Bush II recession passes and then it will be back in full force. 

[snowcamper]

What a curious version of history you have... especially that Reagan took over during the period of Stagflation and then ushered in the largest period of economic growth in history (1982-2002)...

And it's also funny how "not enough regulation" caused the housing crisis, when it was really the regulations of Barney Frank et. al. that required banks to make those subprime loans to questionable, but politically favored, borrowers that led us to the crisis we have today.

There is one very simple thing that you have to understand about this whole crisis...  90% of people are still current on their mortgages.  It is the 10% of people on the margins who are causing the problems.  The vast majority of those people in default were sub-prime borrowers to begin with... meaning people who would not have received loans to begin with without government coercion, and coercion from the likes of ACORN. 

Additionally, TARP was meant to be repaid, with interest, and it has been.  Bush's policy has apparently worked and gotten us through the panic portion of the crisis...   Obama's policies are saddling us with debt that is never going to be repaid.  Not only that, but instead of earning interest for the taxpayer, we are going to be paying interest ad infinitum on the debt we have been saddled with.

But then, maybe you live in a world where perpetual debt is "good economic policy" and short-term, profitable, re-paid debt is bad.  What a strange world that must be.

As to Chatham County.... your wishes that we have a "normal" economy (are you really referring to the Jimmy Carter era as a good thing?) are the exact problem with the LTT...  reality is the fact that we have been in a recession and the rosy predictions of the CC's and the pro-LTT lobby have been completely wrong in the real world.

Tough to swallow, but those are the facts.

[Bill Crawford]

It's been fascinating to comb through "truth"'s marvelous insight, borne from the view of a just and necessary taxation level. It does take a certain point of view to present government first as an animal that needs a prescibed level of funding.

It's just too bad that those premises have to be further laden with the thirty years of conservative name dropping, in order to create a line of targets to throw water balloons at for the remainder of the discussion.

While it does get tiring after a few paragaphs of that, it does come to mind that a chapter is missing from my "What If?" books: what if Goebbels actaully lived long enough to have a career in politics?

Thanks, truth. Your always good for a laugh. When the mornings are this cold, that's as good as a fresh cup of espresso. I owe you.

[NC YIPPIE]

I like how snowcamper gives Reagan credit for the 'largest period of economic growth' that actually happened when Clinton was President. That's always good for a laugh too. 

[chrstnhsbndfthr]

I like how snowcamper gives Reagan credit for the 'largest period of economic growth' that actually happened when Clinton was President. That's always good for a laugh too. 

THe Reagan expansion was greater, and in fact actually responsible for the Bush expansion, that continued into Clinton's term.  Both GHW Bush and Clinton damged the economy through tax increases.  Certainly Reagan's policies were the most effective and positive we could hope for, and if his predecessors had already won the cold war, as he did prior to Clinton, the growth would have likely been even greater and longer.

No serious-minded individual credits Clinton with ANYTHING that improved the economy.  The GOP congress certainly did force him to accept some of the positive things, but it was reluctantly at best.  He actually vetoed things that would have had an increased positive impact.

[RJLeeb]

I like how snowcamper gives Reagan credit for the 'largest period of economic growth' that actually happened when Clinton was President. That's always good for a laugh too. 

How so?

Do you think economies turn on a dime?  If you asked him, he'd probably say he believes that the policies put in place during the Reagan admin resulted in the economic growth that happened in the Clinton Admin.

Keep in mind that the liberals keep arguing about the "mess G.W. made" when talking about our current economic situation.  Does this mean that Obama is responsible for the situation 30 seconds after he took his oath of office?  Have you got a stopwatch over there Yip?  

I think the Bush admin shares some responsibility for the state of things.  Obama's actions after he took office will also affect us, especially the massive debt he's acquired.

I have every confidence in the ability of a politician to screw up the economy.  I've got very little confidence in their ability to "fix" it.

[NC YIPPIE]

Like so:

especially that Reagan took over during the period of Stagflation and then ushered in the largest period of economic growth in history (1982-2002)...

No, I don't think economies turn on a dime, but if you are in there for 8 years, one would think your policies would have some impact.

If you look at CHF's take on it, you see how selective people can be in their interpretation of history by giving credit when it suits their needs and denying credit when it suits someone else's needs.

[snowcamper]

Since we're talking about "truth", let's get some data:
From http://tinyurl.com/ycwo3ku

GDP of the US: (billions)
2000: 9,951.5
2001: 10,286.2
2002:  10,642.3
2003:  11,142.1
2004:  11,867.8
2005:  12,638.4
2006:  13,398.9
2007:  14,077.6
2008:  14,441.4
45% growth in total GDP

Looks like growth to me!

During Clinton's term it did:
1992- 1999
6,342.3
6,667.4
7,085.2
7,414.7
7,838.5
8,332.4
8,793.5
9,353.5
47% Growth

So there's not much difference between the two....

Now the so-called "failed" policies of Reagan:
1980-1987
2,788.1
3,126.8
3,253.2
3,534.6
3,930.9
4,217.5
4,460.1
4,736.4
70% GROWTH!!!

Not to take sides here... but if YIP is right, and a president's "policies would have some impact", then I know which president's policies I would be looking to.
Not Bush
Not Clinton
Reagan

[NC YIPPIE]

Yes, you're right, it is clear Reagan's policies eventually created the recession Bush Sr inherited. The mid-80s boom led directly to the late 80s recession. In fact, but the late 80s the poverty rate had actually risen from what it was when Reagan took office.

It's interesting that your 'truth' calculations include the GDP for 1992, prior to Clinton even being in office and somehow don't include 2000, when he was of course still President. I guess it figures though, as Reagan gets credit for the GDP in 1980, when he wasn't even in office.

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