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Author Topic: A Meditation on Ayn Rand  (Read 1083 times)
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NC YIPPIE
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« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2009, 12:17:03 PM »

Paine specifically called for a portion of the funds to be used to pay the pensions of "the lame and blind" which one would have to assume would be 'in need.' It was not just about one set of people as you seem to be claiming. Paine views private property as necessary, but concludes that the basic needs of all humanity must be provided for by those with property, who have originally taken it from the general public. There's no doubt Paine's writings inspired both Washington and his troops and he was also the first to use the phrase 'United States of America.' He is even said to have written the original draft of the Declaration, which actually abolished slavery, although obviously Jefferson took it from there. In any case, he was far beyond a footnote in history and certainly an important founding father.

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Is it right to say that I'm against welfare or is it more right to say I'm against government taking from one group of people and giving to another?  Would people have more or less funds available for charity if taxes were lower?

Yes, it is right to say that you are against welfare.  Cool

You are certainly free to vaguely postulate about other future scenarios, but as of today you are against it.

And again, while I do understand what you are saying as far as giving up any liberty as a theme, I just don't agree that it is impossible to strike a reasonable balance.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 12:27:54 PM by NC YIPPIE » Logged

"Year by year the relentless temper of war is giving way to the gentle tones of brotherhood and peace." - Col. John Randolph Lane
RJLeeb
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« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2009, 01:25:15 PM »

At least you understand what I'm saying.  That's the best I was hoping for.

I didn't say Paine was a "footnote".  You're twisting what I'm saying.  I just said that his ideas on the subject weren't reflected by the constitution.  As for whether or not he wrote the Declaration, there are theories about that, but it is generally accepted that Jefferson originally wrote it.

Saying that people would have more money available for charity with less taxes isn't vague postulating. 

I hope the link I provided about state and local taxes was helpful to you and you got my point about taxes.  I noticed you didn't return to that subject.  Cool
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« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2009, 02:44:33 PM »

How Much is Enough?
All things considered, it’s hard to say whether taxes are too high or too low at any point in time. But one thing’s for sure – it hasn’t always been this way.

For most of America’s history, we’ve been a low-tax haven. From the nation’s founding through the early part of last century, government spending at all levels rarely exceeded 10% of the nation’s income, and even then only during wartime.

In 1927, Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes made his famous observation that “taxes are what we pay for civilized society.”

Easy for him to say. At that time, the average American tax burden was around 10.6% of income, and Tax Freedom Day arrived in early February.

Today, it hovers around 32%. And that doesn’t include the high and very real costs of tax compliance.

These “paperwork burdens” add another $265 billion – or 22 cents for every federal tax dollar – to the nation’s total tax bill.

Of course, taxes ultimately pay for government services. And many of these are essential to keeping society running smoothly – police, roads, courts. Everyone pitches in for them.

But where is the limit? In addition to these basic services, everyone has a list of publicly funded projects he or she thinks necessary. At what point are we no longer getting a good deal for tax dollars?

One way to answer that is to compare taxes with our other expenses.

This year, we’ll work 116 days to pay taxes. In contrast, we’ll work just 106 days on average for food, clothing and housing, combined.

That wasn’t always the case. Only in the last decade have taxes exceeded spending on those basic necessities.

Today we work 52 days for our own health and medical care, but twice as many for the health of local, state and federal governments.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/1436.html
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Silk_Hope
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« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2009, 02:52:04 PM »

Yip I found the last paragraph of the article very interesting.
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RJLeeb
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« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2009, 04:55:57 PM »

How Much is Enough?
All things considered, it’s hard to say whether taxes are too high or too low at any point in time. But one thing’s for sure – it hasn’t always been this way.

For most of America’s history, we’ve been a low-tax haven. From the nation’s founding through the early part of last century, government spending at all levels rarely exceeded 10% of the nation’s income, and even then only during wartime.

In 1927, Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes made his famous observation that “taxes are what we pay for civilized society.”

Easy for him to say. At that time, the average American tax burden was around 10.6% of income, and Tax Freedom Day arrived in early February.

Today, it hovers around 32%. And that doesn’t include the high and very real costs of tax compliance.

These “paperwork burdens” add another $265 billion – or 22 cents for every federal tax dollar – to the nation’s total tax bill.

Of course, taxes ultimately pay for government services. And many of these are essential to keeping society running smoothly – police, roads, courts. Everyone pitches in for them.

But where is the limit? In addition to these basic services, everyone has a list of publicly funded projects he or she thinks necessary. At what point are we no longer getting a good deal for tax dollars?

One way to answer that is to compare taxes with our other expenses.

This year, we’ll work 116 days to pay taxes. In contrast, we’ll work just 106 days on average for food, clothing and housing, combined.

That wasn’t always the case. Only in the last decade have taxes exceeded spending on those basic necessities.

Today we work 52 days for our own health and medical care, but twice as many for the health of local, state and federal governments.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/1436.html


That difference in taxes...

What happened to it in 1945?  What was the rate difference between the federal income tax rate in 1927 versus 1945?  Or 1950?

Did you find any evidence that your assertion about state and local tax was true?  I don't see any in this article.

One thing comes to mind when you post things like this: do you feel as if the taxes you pay are worth it?

Do you think we should pay more if the government says more is needed to make things more fair?  Healthcare comes to mind...

Keep it up Yip and you'll find yourself at a tea party with me.  We're waiting for you with coffee and snacks.  I hope you'll be along shortly.  Cool
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« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2009, 08:49:34 PM »

With the people at the tea parties that spoke out against Bush and are genuinely concerned for our country, I'm sure we could find some common ground. I share their general distrust of government, but would likely disagree on at least some of their solutions. However, with the others who blindly support all things they consider 'conservative' when it suits them and who speak out more against their fellow Americans than our national enemies - not so much.

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"Year by year the relentless temper of war is giving way to the gentle tones of brotherhood and peace." - Col. John Randolph Lane
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